Join Jordan Ostroff and me as we discuss growing law firms through technology, automation, and the cloud. Jordan, a Florida Personal Injury Attorney, embarked on a mission to redefine legal practice. He was passionate about leveraging cutting-edge legal technology and systems and aimed to create a client-focused firm that stood out. 2015 Jordan Law was born, initially operating from a small office with Jordan as the sole practitioner. Today, it has flourished into a thriving multi-attorney firm housed in its building and serving clients across Central Florida.

Join Jordan and me as we discuss the following three questions and more!

1. What are the top three ways attorneys should use AI to enhance their law practice?

2. What are the top three things attorneys should not expect AI to do today?

3. What are the top three legal ethics concerns attorneys should be wary of when using AI in law practice?

In our conversation, we cover the following:

[01:15] Unveiling the Minimalist Tech Setup: From Software to Hardware and Making the Most of AI in Law Practice

[07:12] Unleashing AI in Legal Practice: Enhancing Efficiency, Compliance, and Competitive Advantage

[14:25] Exploring the Boundaries: Opportunities and Limitations

[22:57] Navigating Legal Ethics in AI-Driven Law Practice: Top Concerns for Attorneys

[38:58] Striking the Balance: Leveraging AI for Efficient Client Communication in the Legal Profession

Resources:

Connect with Jordan:

· E-mail: Attorneys@jordanlawfl.com

· LinkedIn: linkedin.com/in/jordan-ostroff/

· Website: https://www.jordanlawfl.com/

Software and Apps mentioned in the conversation:

· Practice Panther: practicepanther.com/

· DALL·E 2: openai.com/dall-e-2

Hardware mentioned in the conversation:

· Canon SLR DSLR camera: usa.canon.com/shop/cameras/dslr-cameras

Transcript:

Tech Savvy Lawyer - Episode 62 - Jordon Ostrof - Final

Episode 62, growing your law firm with technology automation in the Cloud. My conversation with Jordan Ostrov.

My next guest is Jordan Ostrov. Jordan is a Florida personal injury attorney. After working for the state, he left with a dream to do things a little differently. Jordan wanted to leverage the latest legal technology and systems to create a client-focused practice. Jordan Law started in 2015 with us Jordan, in a small office, and has grown to a multi attorney firm with its own building, taking cases throughout central Florida.

Editor's note. Hey everyone. My apologies. But apparently when I recorded this episode, I accidentally hit the wrong mic button. For my recording. And I ended up using the internal max studio, Mike. The mic is not of the best quality, but the episodes still turned out. Fantastic. So my apologies to the listeners and my apologies to the guest, I hope you enjoy. Thanks again for listening.

Jordan, welcome to podcast. Thank you so much for having me. I appreciate you being here. And to get things started, please tell us

[00:01:06] Robert's Current Tech Setup!

what is your current tech setup? Anything that's on your desk, on a day-to-day basis that you use to run the work that you do, and perhaps also doing some of the podcasts and videocasts that you do.

Love it. All right, so my short answer is as little as possible. So from a, software standpoint, I love the Google Suite. You've got Gmail, you've got the calendar, you've got the sheets. Numbers whatever it's called these days through all that stuff. And then tech-wise, from a law firm standpoint, we use Matics into practice Panther.

From the marketing company standpoint, we use a sauna with a harvest for our time tracking. And then from a, creating the marketing standpoint, that's where we have a million programs, depending upon, how to customize all the graphics by our designers to load it into Canva, for our coordinators to be able to use it.

To move it over here, plus AI to write stuff and AI to edit these and. Figuring out what hashtags are trending according to the machine learning and stuff. So that one's always interesting, but for me personally, I try to be a minimalist. Okay. And what about your hardware? That's a great question.

So computer-wise, I, we've had, I've had the same computer for I think six years. Oh, wow. Along those lines. It's a Dell, so I'm not it runs email as needed and all of our cloud-based pro programs, I've got a Canon S sl D S L R that I use for all the video stuff. Mm-hmm. Audio-wise, I've got this mic.

I don't know what it is. And then some EarPods. So no fancy noise canceling, no Bluetooth. The phone's a really good job. And then the mic was like the highest rated lapel mic that we can find, but don't remember what it was exactly. Okay, excellent. Excellent. I have not heard I've not heard any complaints.

Hopefully we'll keep that up. Smartphone smart tablets. I've got an iPhone that I use for a ton of stuff. Okay. Otherwise, I don't use Apple for anything else. So I hit that weird intersection. What about a tablet? I have an iPad to be honest. For me, I can either do it on my phone or do it better on a laptop.

And so I end up finding the iPad to be like the, splitting the difference in a way that it's helpful to carry video on a plane and watch movies for 10 hours straight. So you mentioned you had a laptop. Now is this the computer on your desk or is this a traveling laptop and do you have a desktop on your computer, on your desk?

Excuse me. So desktop on the computer. Like we did a 13 month cross-country road trip, so mm-hmm. We bought a what kind of a Lenovo And it like, is it died? Oh, not it died yet, but like we used it so much. Right as we were traveling in through everything. So it needs to be it needs to be replaced.

It has gone through its lifespan. So do you call which Lenova you got? I don't, it's a very light one. We didn't buy it right before the trip. Like we had it for a while, so it was Oh, okay. So it's, it wasn't just 13 months old and then it died, correct? No, no, no, no. It was like we brought it thinking like, oh, if we have to replace, we have to replace it.

And it survived the entire way. And then we got back and. Literally the fan sounds like it's semi-truck idling. Gotcha. By like the week that we got back. So, but we haven't had a huge need for it cause we haven't been traveling since. Sure. Then so. Well, but I gotta ask and you know, I apologize.

I'm not trying to pick on you by asking this question. Yeah. It's just something that I personally noticed, but then I tend to be a heavy user when it comes to computers is that the windows-based machines tend to die early. So I'm impressed that you got six years out of your current desktop. What is the you know, secret of your sauce?

What do you think, what makes, what is making your computer last so long? What are your tips and tricks on that? I use Zoom and I use Google Chrome and that's it. That's it. There's, I play no games on it. I have nothing, no video loaded on it or anything like that. It's all just it's all, stream stuff if we're doing that or the different programs that we can log into cloud-based. So truly for me, I just need the internet out of the computer really. Okay. Okay. Excellent. Well, you know, that's something to consider because, when people are starting off, they need to invest in a computer at some point.

A lot of people I know will use their personal laptops or computers at least to start their practice and try to partition some of the hard drive off so that they can have that dedicated to, the law firm or their law practice. And on the other hand, they got the personal stuff going on, but they have a little bit more going on than say what you have because you bought a solid computer for one thing only.

And that says the Zoom, the email. And some chrome. Yep. And dual screens. That was the oh, the big purchase with this, so, so, okay. So dual screens. So who makes your monitors? They're Dell. Are they the wide screen or are they just regular? No, two wide screens. Okay. Are those the 32 or the 37 inch?

No, they're, I think 19. They're smaller. Oh, okay. Okay. 4k 5k, 10 81. I dunno. Fair enough. I just had an interview with another guest and he went from the dual screen to the single screen because of attention issues, and he's looking to invest in one of those wide screen panels. Yeah. You know, kind of arc around.

So, and there's been, apparently there's been studies where, some say that is the better way to do things than to have dual screens, or in my case, I have three screens. I've got a Mac XDR screen and they got two LG four Ks flanking left and right. So , I can compartmentalize certain pieces of work, here and there, and law's gonna keep an eye on my calendar and, incoming email and then focus on work, but, Again to each their own.

And on the other hand, maybe you'll find yourself getting a third screen potentially. So I like, for me, the dual, my favorite use of the dual screens is I'll have like the content pulled up on one. Yeah. And then looking at the caption on the other. So, okay, here's the video we're gonna post. Here's the caption that's been written.

Mm-hmm. Yeah. And doing it that way, which I mean, I'm sure with a big enough screen you could just drag and drop the stuff the same way. True. I mean, I like to have my research on one side and my word. Document that I'm typing into. Alright excellent. Well, let's get into the questions. ,

[00:06:52] Question #1: What are the top three ways attorneys should be using AI to enhance their own law practice?

Question number one, what are the top three ways attorneys should be using AI to enhance their own law practice?

So, I love this one. The first thing definitely going to be. Trying to maximize your output, whether that's on motions, whether that's on content, whatever. That's the first use of AI that I think we all need. Mm-hmm. Especially because of the billable hour, especially because of how many millions of things you'll be doing at any given time.

After that, I think AI is a great opportunity to give you sort of a backup on not forgetting things. So if you've got some of these systems and checklists put together, there may be a part like, all right, run the motion through AI and make sure that it, meets the judges' standards and here's the list for that.

Something along those lines. Third, for ai, I think the interesting thing is gonna be how we set ourselves apart. You know, if you are a lawyer right now who's competing on price, There's a computer out there that's gonna do something cheaper. So really getting the skills you need now to maximize either your personal brand or your knowledge base or whatever that's gonna be so that people want to pay more for you to be the one solving this problem instead of letting a computer do it.

So let me ask you two questions sort of, of the last two answers. Number one. Where should attorneys look to be better trained in using AI in the legal field? You know, that's a great question that I don't have an easy answer to because I think that there's so, it's so new and the legal and the law or the criminal justice system mm-hmm.

Or the civil justice system is always so behind the times. So I don't know that there is actually going to be a specific place to go from a lawyer perspective unless it's too late. So right now, I think you need to be staying up to date on it outside of the legal industry as much as what people are doing from, in other industries and seeing how you can move that into the law and obviously follow your ethics rules and follow, all of those things.

Like, don't cut those corners because it worked okay for some influencer selling supplements. Lawyer perspective-wise, I just think that you're going, we're gonna be so far behind the times as an industry that the more that you know now and the more you just try to bring it into your practice and learn by doing, the more you're gonna stay ahead of 99% of people.

Do you have an AI generator of choice for the work that you do? Depends upon what it is. So like a lot of our graphic designers have fallen in love with Dolly, which does the AI image generation. Mm-hmm. And then they'll go in and they'll customize parts of it. But that starts out as a great beginning to it.

I really like chat, G P T from the conversation standpoint, there's a number of other programs that have integrated it. So one of the things that I wanna work on over the next couple months is taking our policies and procedures and putting that into an AI so you can have the same conversation about, Hey, how do I post?

Clips from a podcast up here. How do I file this sort of motion? How do I make a, the right Canva post that matches the firm brand and have it give you the answer in a conversation instead of going through, whatever's gonna be 300 pages of an, of a policy and procedure, aran et tetra file, whatever that's gonna look like to allow people to learn or get questions answered.

From an AI space backed by the answers that the firm wants to give or the company wants to give. So, lemme ask you a hypothetical. You talked about you talked about, I drafted this motion, but I wanna make sure it falls within the judge's rules and, the way he wants his formatting and all that other fun stuff.

What would you use to, to accomplish that? So depend upon the specific program that you're looking for. You know, if you're drafting this from scratch, and let's just use Chad PT as the example here. You may have something in your case management system that says, okay, for Judge Adams, I need to make sure it's, 12 point times new Roman.

Great. When I put it in a word, I'll do that, but I need to make sure you know the margins of this great. I need to make sure about that. But I know that they like case law cited a certain way and you may be able to ask the ai, Hey, are all of my case citations in the correct format for this? Or did I cite this source the correct way, or whatever it's gonna look like.

Along those lines based upon judges per judges, whatever the judge wants or what the judge has set as their local rules. And then for lawyers who are in different counties, there may be some county systems mm-hmm. That you can do that, you know, we refer to it as the petitioner in here, we refer to it as the, respondent over here and making sure that you've got everything correct in the motion, the way it's supposed to be framed, because a lot of these programs are doing such a good job summarizing a much longer document that you may miss, even like contractions.

You know, Hey Chad, g p t. Tell me how many times did I say the word can't? And, and can we turn all of them in a cannot? And just going through and doing things like that, which you could do in, you know, word with a finder. But right as it gets more complicated, the AI becomes really easy at catching some of those things.

Have you ever had it, or do you know of attorneys who've had it actually like, draft a motion, you know, give it the template, give it some facts and let it kinda. Do that for the attorney. So I haven't seen people do it from scratch. Mm-hmm. I've seen people put in like, this is our template for this.

Here are the facts of this case. Rewrite it, fill in the template with those. Right. I have seen attorneys take other attorneys motions, like something that was filed on them, put it in there and say, Hey, summarize this motion, or let me know, what points are different from my client's deposition in terms of the facts that they use.

It's done that. And then from a coding standpoint, I've definitely talked to, developers who have had it do entire additions to programs or programs from scratch, and then they have to go in and I've heard somewhere between, you know, 10 and 15% tweaking the code to make it work the way they want.

But it's really interesting to see them adding like entire new features. With the AI running for, you know, 15 minutes to spit out the code needed for it. Hmm. Interesting. That's, it's just amazing how, like I said, we're sort of at the cusp of this still as AI's become front and center and it is truly, it's gonna be very interesting.

And as we talked about at the a b A tech show this past week. And as I talk about this with other colleagues, it's a great tool. It's not a replacement. Well see that's, so that's interesting. I a hundred percent agree with you, but I know that there are lawyers that are not gonna feel that way because they've only been competing on price, or at least they've been focused on that.

How can I get things done as cheaply as possible? And then there's always gonna be somebody that will have. A better knowledge of tech to undercut you as opposed to getting more lawyers to believe what you're saying and what I agree with and really positioning themselves to be better than what a machine can spit out or better than what they can find on Legal Zoom or whatever that's gonna be.

It's sort of like using Lexus Nexus and Westlaw online. You don't use the books anymore unless there's some sort of extreme emergency that I could even think of. It's just the next tool. So people and attorneys and others just have to get comfortable with it and just started at adapting to it.

And those are the companies that I think are the most at risk to either completely update the way things are searched, to make it a lot more normal conversation or. To just have Google come down with, the next AI that they've had, read every case in the history of time, and it can give you those answers back too.

Now that would be interesting. That would be interesting, but I think we're a ways away from that. But what do I know? Let's get into question number two.

[00:13:49] Question #2: What are the top three things attorneys should not expect AI to do today?

What are the top three things attorneys should not expect AI to do today? So, ai. Should not be a replacement for adding on more attorneys, more staff members, et cetera.

It should increase the bandwidth that they have. It should make them able to do more work, but it is not a true replacement. B, it is not a true replacement for actually researching topics. There are certain answers that are gonna be wrong that don't seem wrong unless you actually look into them. So don't take it to be a hundred percent correct.

And then third, what AI is not gonna be just now is it is not going to be. The, it's not gonna replace finding more knowledge. There is an amazing amount of information combined to this to give you information back in a really easy way. Mm-hmm. But there are still things where you need to be staying up to date on the best business practices or the best features of some sort of software or something along those lines so that you can put the right information into the computer to get the right responses or know what's right or what you know, or whatever that breaks down to be.

Okay. So that's two I think. So not replacing people. Not always being right and then not preventing you from still having to learn new things. So staying up to date on. So, the one thing about chat GDP I'm kind of wondering about is it acknowledges that it's up to date as a September, 2000, 2021 if I got the date right.

So something like that. Yeah. Yeah. So I'm wondering, have you seen it be lack of a better uninformed or shortsighted in some of its answers because of that? Oh, completely. I, a friend of mine, Who's a creative writer posted a thing he asked it about. Like the 10 most impactful books of like the beat generation, so like Jack Ack and all them.

Okay. It was wrong on all the dates and even all those books are like fifties and sixties books, but the release date was wrong on all of 'em. So there are a number of things. Yeah, there a couple of 'em. It was off by a month. A couple of 'em was off by several years. Just varying amounts. There's definitely gonna be things like that.

And then there's also the opportunity for things for like true things to change over time. We used to think things were a certain way. We've learned it's not gonna learn the difference, and so there's a mix of all these opportunities, which will be really crazy. Like right now, it is intentionally not connected to the internet.

So it's interesting if they can create an AI that is strong enough and powerful enough and secure enough to connect it to the internet. To keep it up to date on new information, and it can crawl the same way that Google bots, in essence, crawl information for the, for showing of the search results.

There's a way to merge those things, to keep it up to date with, common knowledge of right what has happened but then you end up running into the risk of, Skynet and the Terminator life. So who knows? I've referred to Skynet a couple times, I think in my postings. So just, that will hopefully never happen.

But it's still, this is still a fascinating time in both the AI tech world and also the legal arena, although you heard about that one judge who refused a lawyer's request to let the AI argue the case. It was like a traffic ticket, I think. So I, they've had a number of those and then I forgot what company, but they announced they were gonna, like secretly do it, and it got canned the, whatever it was, 24 hours before, which I don't know how they knew what case it was gonna be unless maybe they filed a motion and they weren't disclosing.

I don't know. But I mean, it's coming. That's the reality of it is if it's not today, it's. Tomorrow or next week or next year, there's gonna be some of those things, but there's still things that we are gonna be able to do as trial attorneys that the computer's not gonna know. Pardon the interruption.

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Thanks again and enjoy. I think one of the, at the startup Alley, at the ABA Tech show, the startup Alley is for new computer technology in the legal arena to, compete for, some funding, I believe, if I remember correctly. And the contest, there's like 20 of them. And one of them was, I think, how to handle a traffic ticket.

I think it's closer. I think it's closer than we may think. Oh, completely. And Michael, can I give you my five year view of this from a browser? Absolutely. Absolutely. So this is the thing that I'm most looking forward to, that hybridization between what AI can do and what we can do as humans. So the example that I'm giving to you as many lawyers as possible, imagine you are preparing for your closing argument in a case.

And you have had, a camera trained on all the jurors that reads into an AI and going into that closing argument, the camera can say, Hey, jurors two, six and 12 are a hundred percent in your boat. They have nodded along with everything you've said, they've said no. On the other case, these jurors are on their side.

So these are your swing jurors. And it would know, this juror really likes the emotional appeal. When your client was testifying, this juror was on, had tears coming down, their eyes was really in it. When your experts testify, they sort of checked out and having that information to know which juror to address the logos, the ethos, the mytho arguments to during your closing argument.

That's where I see this becoming effective in the courtroom, in this hybrid model. What the timeline is for that, I don't know, but just imagine having that knowledge going into, the the closing or the end of the case to know which jurors don't seem to be a hundred percent vibing with you, and what arguments do seem to be the most convincing to them.

Well, that seems to be a way to certainly democratize justice. For lower economic individuals who can't afford, say a jury panel expert, not only reading which ju jurors to, choose, but also which jurors to focus on during the trial. The closing arguments that you talked about, because having a piece of software that could do it for you somewhat automatically versus hiring jury consultants that, you have to spend hundreds, thousands of dollars a day, which would just be cost prohibitive in a typical.

You know, average Joe Schmo trial. And I love the way you frame that because that's exactly what it is. It is the ability to, off it is the ability to even the playing field. Mm-hmm. When done right through technology and and that's also from a marketing standpoint, the ability for you or I by ourselves to generate 20 blog posts and the same time it took us to generate four, to stay up with, some of the larger players or whatever that looks like from a content standpoint.

There's a ton of opportunity for this, and the hope is, That, that allows people with the most likability or the most interesting thing to say. Mm-hmm. Or the most, in the moment can impactful trial strategy to stand out rather than just whoever had the biggest team or spent the most money in advertising or.

You know, whatever that looks like. I agree with you. Hundred percent. I really do. And that was another thing that was being discussed at the tech show was democratization of justice and how technology can help with that. And I mean, I think this is clearly a case amongst. Many other ways to use AI than just a jury selection panel or, and jury, what was the phrase you called it?

A jury to like know which ones to talk to. You called it a I mean you've got jury consultants who will do this, but from my standpoint, like letting you know who are the swing jurors, who still seem to be up in the air about how they're feeling about the case. So basically it's an automated jury consultant right through that.

And look, I also think this applies to the flip side of it. You know, imagine. We go in front of a judge, we file these 40 page briefs on cases and we hope the judge read reads all of the stuff, right? But if we can get the, if we get an AI to summarize the 40 pages or the 80 pages by both sides down to two or three, the judge may be that much more up on the case and may, may ask five questions of each side and know how they're gonna rule on this case and therefore freeing up, 30 minutes of time for other cases to be heard or pro se parties or whatever.

It looks like there's a ton. Of opportunity here for a lot of good to come out of this. There was a judge sort of turning this around a little bit. I'm aware there was a judge that was allowing AI to make its decisions that would be, that's too far for me, but I'm sure it's there. I'm not saying it was the right thing to do.

It's one thing to have the AI help him draft the decisions, but in the end, he still has to put, he or she has to put their brain power behind it and make the actual final analysis to make sure that, coincides. Of course if it gets cases wrong or dates wrong, as we talked about earlier, that could be a huge problem.

Well, let's move on to question number three.

[00:21:59] Question #3: What are the top three legal ethics concerns attornesy should be wary of when using AI in their law practice?

What are the top three legal ethics concerns attorneys should be wary of when using AI in their law practice? One of the biggest ones that I think is coming out of this is the practicing law by a non-lawyer. So like the supervision of staff. Empowered with this AI still needing a final sign off from you as the lawyer or still having your bar card be at risk for this motion that got filed.

Even if it's, you know, a hundred times the AI is generated, but this one has something that's wrong, I think that's gonna be the biggest thing from the direct lawyer standpoint. Really for any business. I think there's an issue of the disclosure of information, cuz ultimately the AI learns from everybody putting their information out there.

And telling AI what's right and what's wrong. So do you have some sort of potential opportunity to blow, like client confidentiality if you're uploading some of these documents into it? Is there a way to limit or make sure that answer is not gonna be given to somebody else from that perspective?

And then third I look, what do lawyers get punished for? Obviously the big one is trust account. The second one's communication with clients. So how many lawyers are gonna say, Hey, now I can handle 400 cases because I can file these motions. But the AI is not having the conversation with clients and not keeping the clients up to date.

And so the is the third issue becomes the lawyers still being able to communicate with our clients properly to keep them in the loop. But I would think that if I was going to upload a draft, Motion or, draft pleading that I would keep out certain, personal identification information, date of birth, social security numbers, people's names.

I mean, it seems to be that should be something easy enough to keep up when you're uploading it for an analysis by an ai. This way it doesn't get on the internet. At least in that means totally in best practice or in the way it probably should be. Mm-hmm. You are a hundred percent correct. I just, there's the coolest example I saw.

They had, somebody asked the ai, what's the hex code for Barney? The dinosaur? And the AI said I don't, you know, I don't know enough information to answer this question. Like, okay, what color is Barney? The dinosaur, he's purple. Normally a dark purple. Okay, great. What's a hex code for dark purple? It's blah, blah, blah.

Okay, so what's the hex code for Barney? Well, it'd probably be something around the hex code for dark purple. So there's a way where you are asking enough questions for it to build the connections. Right, and it's probably, it's probably not gonna make a difference for any one specific case. But what if you have, you know, a Casey Anthony Case or the Murdo trial, you've got something that is completely so nationwide impactful to everybody.

Is there the risk that one of the lawyers on the case upload something that allows the AI to answer a question about the current, well, I guess the current event situation wouldn't be the best one, but there's a risk there now, do I think, right? Well, that. But that seems to be like an indirect way to, to upload it or for a, the AI to find out.

So it sounds like that's more of a separate ethics questions in the sense that if, in this hypothetical if Casey Anthony's attorney uploaded her date of birth or her social security number, And then AI uses later, because I'm writing an article about Casey Anthony, or doing some sort of legal motion on her behalf, say at a later day, because, old council's gone.

Right. And I understand what you're saying. It just seems that the onus wouldn't be on me using the ai, the onus would be on prior party. Oh, correct. Made the slip, yes. Of course we don't, I don't think I'd wanna perpetuate that. No, I totally agree. I file, I file something, redacted still.

And unfortunately with so many different types of cases that are out there, you have people's date of birth, social security numbers and other, private information. And the other question I wanted to ask you on this. Well, bill, I thought I wanted to share, and I've had this conversation with others that, if I'm the attorney and I'm having a paralegal or law clerk draft something for me in the end, I'm gonna read it and make sure everything is okay.

You know, cause whether it's my paralegal, law clerk themselves, or if they're using ai or if I'm using ai. I'd be an idiot just to take whatever they produced or whatever the AI produced and just sign my name to it and upload it to the court. Cause that would be a, I mean, it just seems that there's still common sense things that you can do without making any sense to, to make sure you don't, do U P L or, commit the hire of the court or worship at a malpractice complaint or a bar complaint.

Oh, absolutely. But you're getting so. You know the expression, if somebody can do it 80% as well as you delegate it to them. Right. And I have a friend of mine at, whether it's his word or not, he always adds the, and then if you have to make it a hundred percent the way it needs to be, you can do it five times as much.

It's 80% here, you can do the other 20%, five times, right? So you're gonna get lawyers who realize how many more cases they can handle through the ai, and then are they still gonna, do you take the same amount of time to read 12 motions that you would've spent to read three before the AI wrote, wrote that much.

And hopefully the answer is yes, absolutely. And hopefully you still spend the same amount of time on each motion, and hopefully you still put the same amount of effort into each of 'em. But the potential pull to rubber stamp some of the work, especially as you're having this, do it 50 times, a hundred times, 500 times on cases.

Just becomes that much more potentially powerful. And I just wanna make sure, attorneys pump the brakes enough before it becomes a serious problem. So going back to something you said earlier, so as we're talking about how like you can be more, we'll use the word efficient and you can go through cases faster and you can do more cases.

So you can do more, you can take on more clients. And something you mentioned earlier, we talked about how, how do you communicate with your clients when you have all this work and you have more clients, which quite frankly, great more work done. But when you have more clients, that doesn't necessarily negate the communications that you need to do and have with a client.

So that being said, have you seen good uses of things like chat GTP to communicate with a client on a fairly regular basis? I mean, sometimes you just need to pick up the phone and call 'em, and sometimes you can have the chat gtv do it. What are your thoughts on that? So, There's definitely a ton of, whatever you wanna call it, integrations that will tie it into your email and it will auto-generate a response to emails that come in.

So from that merge, the potential disclosure of confidential information with having the AI automatically respond to emails, you get an extra issue from that standpoint. For the most part, I like, I push automation from the standpoint of client communication on the low level things. And I always tell people like, look, go to Domino's.

Order a pizza, follow the Domino's Pizza tracker. And then how do you recreate that for your law firm? You know, they've got the, we've got your order, we're putting the pizza together, it's in the oven. We're confirming alcohol for delivery. So from a personal injury standpoint, we're in the treatment phase, we're negotiation, the lawsuit's been filed, we've got mediation coming on, we've got trial, whatever that is, break that stuff up.

And then the more that you automate those emails, like this is the stage of the process. This was the last stage, so this is the next stage. You can send that out to a million clients, have it say the exact same email or just change their name at the beginning, because all of those stages will always be the same.

Mm-hmm. And then that way when you have the phone calls, you can have the phone calls about the specific thing. Okay, Mrs. Jones, the other side offered blah, blah, blah, on your case. I think we should counter with this. Do you have any new medical bills that have come in? Whatever that looks like. But at least then, you know, Mrs. Jones and 3,500 other clients got the email, all right, we're in the pre-suit negotiation stage. This is what to expect. Or here's here's three YouTube videos we had. If you wanna read more about this or hear more about what's going on, there's ways to sort of merge these things that allow you the automated communication on the major things.

And maximize your time on the customization of each individual client's experience or each individual client's case, and you can have a nice balance there. Excellent, excellent. Those are some great ideas and great thoughts to implement into our practice and I think that things are gonna get more expansive for us, but hopefully a little bit simpler at the same time too.

That being said, Jordan, Thank you for being on the podcast.

[00:29:51] Where you can find Jordon!

Where can people find you? Oh, great question. So there are two Jordan SROs in the world. There's me, and so the other one, apparently a really good salesman in the Boston area. Okay. He gets a ton of job offers emailed to me. So if you are his boss, he's doing something right.

And then there's me, the the bearded lawyer slash lawyer marketer. So I'm on LinkedIn and Facebook would be the two most common ones. Facebook, you'll see more about me as a parent and a father and whatnot. LinkedIn, you'll see more about me as a business owner and thought leader. So pick your poison or both.

Excellent. Excellent. So, wait, I, I gotta ask, do you have a middle name? Michael. Michael. So do you use Michael as part of your social media presence? I do not, no, but he he doesn't have the same following that I can see from that standpoint. Okay. He's just really doing a hell of a job at his sales VP job.

So, some of my friends and colleagues say, well, why do you always say Michael dj, when you're doing the. Or even in the practice. I'm like, it's because, well that's my middle name. And Michael Eisenberg is such a common name cuz Eisenberg's such a common name from Eastern Europe.

And there's another Michael Eisenberg who actually practices in Washington DC So I gotta make sure so I'm Michael DJ Eisenberg. And, and how many people have initials for their middle name? That is my middle name. My middle name is not, David something, something. Hold on. It's, it's this dj, which was my great grandfather's nickname, so that kind of helps me stand out a little bit.

So, but I know Jordan Ostro as my guest here today, not as some business person trying to get an application for a job. But seriously, I do appreciate you being here. I will make sure that all this is in the show notes. Thank you and have a good day. You as well. Thank you for joining me on this episode of the Tech Savvy lawyer.page podcast.

Our next episode will be posted in about two weeks. If you have any ideas about a future episode, please contact me at Michael DJ at the Tech Savvy lawyer.page. Have a great day and happy lawyering.