#60: A Lawyer's Perspective on On-line Marketing with Annette Choti of Law Quill
With everything moving forward with technology, your internet presence is important as a lawyer. There is a huge amount of software you can use to work smarter, not harder, and this will ensure that you drive traffic to your website, build brand awareness, and demonstrate your expertise, authority, and trustworthiness. This week, we are joined by Annette Choti to discuss what attorneys can do to improve their presence on the Internet.
Annette is the founder and owner of Law Quill. For your law practice, they offer branding services, website services, onsite and offsite SEO, unique SEO content, social media marketing, and backlinks. Annette is the author of the book "Click Magnet: The Ultimate Digital Marketing Guide for Law Firms" and the host of the Legal Marketing Lounge podcast. She is an attorney of 20 years and has given keynote speeches to bar associations and legal and business associations throughout the United States and Canada. Annette is a weekly contributor to Above the Law and Attorney at Work online publications as a digital marketing expert for law firms.
Join Annette and me as we talk about the following three questions and more!
Annette and I meeting at the 2023 ABA Techshow in chicago!!!
What are the top three Tech Tips lawyers can do on their own to improve their presence on the internet?
What are the top three pieces of tech an attorney should get if they want to get into podcasting?
What are the top three ways attorneys can use AI? Like chat GTP to increase online content for the practice?
In our conversation, we cover:
[01.11] Tech setup – Starting the conversation, Annette shares her current tech setup and why she switched from Android to Apple products.
[10.18] Tech tips – Annette shares the top three tech tips that lawyers can do to improve their presence on the internet.
[19.26] WordPress or Squarespace – Annette shares why she recommends WordPress instead of Squarespace.
[24.07] TikTok – We talk about the only suitable time attorneys should engage in TikTok.
[19.15] Podcasting- We talk about the top three tech pieces attorneys should get if they are going to start a podcast.
[33.41] Using AI – Annette shares her opinion on attorneys using AI to make creative content.
* Editor’s note: I commented about the cameras for the iPhone 14 v. Samsung S23 in this episode that was recorded before I learned of some news about the Samsung S23's "moon shot."
Resources:
Connect with Annette
Book by Annette
Equipment Mentioned in the Podcast
Software & Services Mentioned in the Podcast
Transcript
Tech Savvy Lawyer - Episode 60
[00:00:00] Michael D.J. Eisenberg: Episode 60, a lawyer's Perspective on online marketing. My conversation with attorney, author, podcaster, and online marketing guru Annette.
[00:00:21] Michael D.J. Eisenberg: Annette has been an attorney and a member of the Missouri Bar for 23 years. She's the founder, owner of Law Quill, a full service legal, digital marketing agency. Annette hosts the podcast Legal Marketing Lounge and wrote the bestselling book, Click Magnet, the Ultimate Digital Marketing Guide for Law Firms.
[00:00:37] Michael D.J. Eisenberg: Annette has been a speaker at the ABA Techshow and multiple bar associations throughout the United States and Canada. Annette used to do theater and professional comedy, which is not so different from the legal field if we're all to be honest. Enjoy. Hey everyone, just a quick shout out before we start.
[00:00:52] Michael D.J. Eisenberg: Are you enjoying the Telio Page podcast? Consider giving us a five star review at Apple Podcast or wherever you get your podcast feeds. Also, consider buying us a cup of coffee or two from the link on our blog to help defray some of the production costs. Thanks and again, enjoy.
[00:01:06] Michael D.J. Eisenberg: Annette, welcome to the podcast.
[00:01:08] Annette Choti: Thank you so much for allowing me to be here. It's a total honor.
[00:01:13] Michael D.J. Eisenberg: Well, I'm thrilled you're here, and to get things started, tell us
[00:01:15] Annette's Current Tech Set-Up!
[00:01:15] Michael D.J. Eisenberg: what is your current tech setup?
[00:01:17] Annette Choti: Well, my current tech setup is that I have a Mac. Book Pro and then I have along with that, a monitor. It's actually a tv. It's, yeah, that, cuz I wanted something that was a little bit bigger, so it's not a massive tv.
[00:01:33] Annette Choti: It's not like a huge, that takes up a wall or anything. It's a tv. That's my second monitor. And then I have, as I told you before, I have my very favorite keyboard, which is not. A Mac keyboard, which sometimes causes problems when I'm trying to do, uh, different functions on my Mac. But it is a Microsoft wireless comfort keyboard 50 50 model 1728.
[00:02:00] Annette Choti: And lemme tell you what, I love this thing so much. I bought like five of them. Wow. And I have them in storage because when one goes bad, I will literally have another one ready to go. So, well, how, how
[00:02:11] Michael D.J. Eisenberg: frequently are they going bad?
[00:02:12] Annette Choti: Well, they're not going bad that often, but you know, it's sort of like when you find something that you absolutely love.
[00:02:17] Annette Choti: Right? Right. Remember, right. You wanna, because eventually it's gonna be obsolete or discontinued. They always discontinue the stuff that you love. So I have a bit of an insurance policy for a little while with these. Tell us what else you have. I have a ring light that, is that part of it? Is that technically Yeah.
[00:02:33] Michael D.J. Eisenberg: I, I've got an a gto. I've got, wait, do I have Anto? Yeah, I have an a gto. Elga, I think actually I should say El Gato light. And you got a ring light. Yeah,
[00:02:42] Annette Choti: I do have a ring light. I think that's really important. I actually have a room with a lot of light it, but there's cloudy days and things like that, so that I think always helps.
[00:02:51] Annette Choti: I'm on Zoom meetings all the time. Mm-hmm. So I think that helps. I have a, and I'm probably gonna pronounce it wrong, is it a low G logie cam camera? It's Logitech. Logitech. It's, yeah. Logitech. Logitech. There we go. Yep. And I love it. And it was, there's a bit of a funny story behind it because during the pandemic I wanted to upgrade my camera because I was doing so many more Zoom calls like everyone else.
[00:03:16] Annette Choti: And I had to get a, on a waiting list for this thing because everyone else had the same idea. It was like just right after the pandemic started and this, I remember that this particular camera was the most highly recommended camera mesa, the planet Earth. And I'm like, well, I gotta have it. So I, we tried to find it and it was imp.
[00:03:36] Annette Choti: I had to be on a waiting list for it, but it is a good camera. So I have that Is the, is it
the
[00:03:41] Michael D.J. Eisenberg: Brio 4k? I
[00:03:42] Annette Choti: don't remember, to be honest with you. It is it horizontal? I don't, I. Yes. Yes.
[00:03:46] Michael D.J. Eisenberg: Okay. And I think it's the same one that I have, and I remember when e everyone bought them up and then you had to wait forever,
[00:03:53] Annette Choti: right?
[00:03:53] Annette Choti: You did. You had to wait forever. It was, it was really, it was crazy. Like all of us were waiting for, and in the meantime we're using all of these really terrible cameras, or some people were using like the cameras off of their actual laptop. Not that there's anything wrong with that, but you know, it certainly doesn't give you the same kind of crisp.
[00:04:11] Annette Choti: Clear picture, and then I'm using my microphone, which is a audio technical. I had to look again, it's audio technical micro microphone and it's, and I'm using one of those little filters that I don't know. They tell me that I'm supposed to use it, so I'm using it.
[00:04:28] Michael D.J. Eisenberg: I'm in the process of post-production with Gordon Frymark, who used to be a professional sound engineer, and he.
[00:04:34] Michael D.J. Eisenberg: Loves the mic that you have. Loves the, oh, really better than the one I have better. No offense to the Yeti, which is what I started off with. But what you've got, he says that is just the perfect microphone to have. Wow.
[00:04:46] Annette Choti: Well, it came really highly recommended. So I, when I got into the podcasting game, I really didn't know very much about, well, I didn't know anything, right?
[00:04:54] Annette Choti: And so I just went to the people that I trusted for their recommendations, and that's what seemed to keep cropping up as a recommendation. So, So I just got it. So that's kind of what's just around me in my near vicinity. And of course my iPhone. Which
[00:05:13] Michael D.J. Eisenberg: iPhone do you have?
[00:05:14] Annette Choti: The, you know what, it's the latest one.
[00:05:17] Annette Choti: So we just got it a couple months ago. A few months ago.
[00:05:19] Michael D.J. Eisenberg: Are, are you on the cycle? Do you rent or lease your iPhone?
[00:05:23] Annette Choti: No, we, no, we don't do that. So we purchased it.
[00:05:27] Michael D.J. Eisenberg: Purchase it and do a hand-me-down with everyone else. Cause I know you have a child, a 16 year old kid.
[00:05:32] Annette Choti: That's exactly what we do. But we're not, I will be honest with you, I don't, I'm not one of those people that.
[00:05:37] Annette Choti: The minute that something comes out, I have to run and get it. I'm just, I'm not, I just don't have that in me. But it just turned out that we were going to Europe and we were, and I just wanted a better camera, frankly, for my phone. It had nothing to do actually with my business. We had gone to Europe and I wanted a better camera on
[00:05:56] Michael D.J. Eisenberg: my phone, so, so is it the 15 Pro Max?
[00:05:59] Michael D.J. Eisenberg: I think that's right. Yeah. Okay. The biggest, most expensive one. I
[00:06:02] Annette Choti: have it too, and I love it. Yeah, I know. It's this one. I, I listen, the listeners can't see it, but
[00:06:08] Michael D.J. Eisenberg: listeners can't see it, but I could see it and I think it is the 14 Pro Max and I love it too. So, and I've always been getting the Pro Maxs or whatever the highest
[00:06:16] Annette Choti: Yes, most expensive.
[00:06:17] Annette Choti: It's fantastic for photography really is fantastic. It's, it is quite shocking for photography. The,
[00:06:24] Michael D.J. Eisenberg: there's been some comparison videos of, I believe the iPhone 14 Promax and the Samsung S 23. And while the S 23 seems to have like, it's like four 40 or 50 optical zoom, that actually allows you to get a great picture of the moon with clarity.
[00:06:44] Michael D.J. Eisenberg: Wow. I kind of compare it to like, TVs and when I personally prefer a Sony tv, which I think gives better detail versus say the LG and some of the others because they are certainly brighter than the Sony. So the Sonys are getting better on the brighter aspect, right, of the lighting aspect. But the details what honors most to me, and I see that even though the iPhones tend to be a little bit darker than the Samsung, the iPhones seem to have more detail.
[00:07:12] Michael D.J. Eisenberg: In my honest opinion. That's me looking at it. Now, maybe I'm a little biased, maybe. There's some truth to what I'm saying. Hopefully there's some truth to what I'm saying, but again, it depends on, as they say to each their own.
[00:07:24] Annette Choti: Yeah, I'm a, I'm definitely a Mac girl, apple girl. I did not used to be until about five years ago, and I would always say, well, you'll just have to pry this.
[00:07:34] Annette Choti: Android outta my cold, right? Dead hand. But it was interesting, and my friends are all like, you're crazy. And it just felt a little cultish to me. And then when I actually got my MacBook Pro, I was like, uh, I think, okay, I kind of see what's going on here. And then that was it. That was the, there was an avalanche after that and I just got all.
[00:07:57] Annette Choti: Apple, I guess I drank the Kool-Aid, so here I am now with all Apple product.
[00:08:02] Michael D.J. Eisenberg: Did your hesitation come due from your time in law school and basically all they could use was a Windows machine because of the way the Lexus and West law programs were being used?
[00:08:12] Annette Choti: No, I think it came from stubbornness. Fair enough.
[00:08:16] Annette Choti: Once I like some, it's sort of like my keyboard, right? Like once I like something, then I like it. I mean, I am a loyal. Person typically. And so once I like something, I stick to it unless I find substantial reason to change. And fair enough. Factbook Pro definitely gave me a lot of, a lot of reasons to switch over.
[00:08:38] Annette Choti: So, so I did. So I can be persuaded, certainly I'm not too stubborn, but it's, you fall into a routine and then a lot of people just like what they know. Right. Exactly.
[00:08:48] Michael D.J. Eisenberg: Exactly. Well, wait, I hear an iPhone. I hear a computer, but I didn't hear a tablet.
[00:08:54] Annette Choti: I do have a tablet, but I don't typically use it for work.
[00:08:57] Annette Choti: It's more for just, I don't even have it here on my desk. I typically use it for more personal things like reading,
[00:09:05] Michael D.J. Eisenberg: social media consumption and whatnot.
[00:09:07] Annette Choti: A little bit of that. I try to, I do so much of that for my actual work that I try to stay off of that actually when I'm not, when I'm not makes sense doing, because it's a lot.
[00:09:18] Annette Choti: I have to deal, I have to deal with it a lot during the day, so I try to not consume as much in the evenings because it's a bit of a rabbit hole. We all know that,
[00:09:27] Michael D.J. Eisenberg: but you forgot to tell us. What kind of TV is it? Who's the maker? Oh gosh.
[00:09:31] Annette Choti: I think it's Acer. If I'm not incorrect. A
[00:09:34] Michael D.J. Eisenberg: sir. Yeah, but that's a monitor, not a tv.
[00:09:36] Michael D.J. Eisenberg: It
[00:09:36] Annette Choti: is a monitor. Now that I'm thinking about it, maybe. Oh, you know what it, it's an, is it asis? Does that sound more accurate? That still sounds like a monitor, I think. I think it might just be a monitor. Then I think the other, the TV that we have is in the other room that I've got, so this one in front of me, right here in my actual office.
[00:09:55] Annette Choti: Office proper is an, is an Acer. Okay, cool. But it is brave painted in pink glitter. So does that count for anything? Because it counts for
[00:10:07] Michael D.J. Eisenberg: creativity and making your
[00:10:09] Annette Choti: office, your home. Yeah, my whole office is hot pink and then like a light pa. It kind of looks like a Barbie office. I love it so well, we'll make
[00:10:16] Michael D.J. Eisenberg: sure to have a photo of you in your office on the podcast and the blog.
[00:10:21] Michael D.J. Eisenberg: And we'll tell you what, let's switch gears and let's get into the questions.
[00:10:25] Question #1: What are the top three tech tips lawyers can do on their own to improve their presence on the internet?
[00:10:25] Michael D.J. Eisenberg: What are the top three tech tips lawyers can do on their own to improve their presence on the internet?
[00:10:30] Annette Choti: So obviously I'm gonna approach this from a marketing. Exactly of you versus someone else who might this from just ale, you know, the legal, the actual legal work.
[00:10:43] Annette Choti: So if you look at the top three tech tips, then I'm, I started thinking about this. I was like, what? Are the most important things a person should be doing on the internet. Okay. And then I looked at what the tech is behind it. So if you've already got branding and you've already got a website, I'm kind of assuming that with this question because if you don't have those, then you need a website and you probably, if you can't make one of those yourself, you probably need to hire that out.
[00:11:12] Annette Choti: But let's say you have a website, and let's say it's WordPress, which is sort of the gold standard for websites. The very first thing you need to be doing is putting, be putting content on your website. That can get a little tricky if you're not sure exactly how to do it. There is product called Elementor that okay I love and that integrates with WordPress.
[00:11:39] Annette Choti: And it's basically a whiskey wig. What you see is what you get. It's a drag and drop kind of system, similar to Wicks, similar to Squarespace, except it's actually embedded within WordPress. Makes it very easy for someone to not only write content on their website, but also copy and paste content they've written maybe in a Word document something, or on a Google Doc, copy and paste that in.
[00:12:03] Annette Choti: It's very intuitive. It's very easy to use. It's easy to add images, video, and so if the important thing regarding your marketing, if the very most important thing is to put search engine and optimized content on your website, right then, I have found that one of the easiest ways to do that is to use that Elementor tool because again, it's just.
[00:12:25] Annette Choti: Very easily accessible and very user friendly. So that would be the first thing, okay? Now after you've got really great content on your website, you can't just build it and they will come. You have to actually promote that. So the next two things that I'm gonna talk about, which are tech tips, these are also tech products that you can use to help yourself work.
[00:12:50] Annette Choti: Smarter and not harder. The first is Canva. That is a free product on the internet. Now you can pay to upgrade, but you don't really need to. And what is beautiful about this product, and I'm sure many of your listeners already know about it, is that there are always new templates that are coming out.
[00:13:09] Annette Choti: Mm-hmm. Can change the color, you can change the font, you can add your own. Logo. So it's very easy to make the graphics either to embed inside of Elementor on your website or to then use on all of the different social media platforms. And they even have this really clever tool within Canva that allows you to instantly resize images.
[00:13:32] Annette Choti: Just click a button and it'll resize it for Instagram, Facebook, LinkedIn. All the things. So I love promoting that particular product because it's very user friendly as well. You don't have to have a graphic design degree. Right, right. You don't even really, frankly, have to be very creative. Like Yeah. The work is kind of done for you.
[00:13:53] Michael D.J. Eisenberg: Wouldn't you agree? I, I use Campa for the blog of the podcast. And that's, I created the whole text savvy lawyer box, the yellow and the mic, and sure the language. And I alter it for like podcasts, blog, shout outs, editorials, and they have all these great little embedded icons or emojis that you can use.
[00:14:15] Michael D.J. Eisenberg: And easily pop on and move about. And it will also help you structure it so things are
[00:14:20] Annette Choti: balanced. It's fantastic. And not only that, you can actually now make video with it. Oh, you can make Instagram carousel posts. Okay. So there, I mean, there's just a ton of power within it, and it's all free, so everybody can afford free.
[00:14:36] Annette Choti: So that is a tool that I typically recommend. And then the last way that I think is really the top way. To work smarter and not harder is as after you've created the content, after you've created some graphics and maybe even created the content for a social media post. It's to get all of that content out on all the different platforms, Instagram, Facebook.
[00:15:00] Annette Choti: And Google business profile. Everyone should be putting their posts on Google Business Profile. A lot of people don't know about that, but there are tools out there that are scheduling tools. Now, there are a lot that are out there and some have benefits, others don't, and vice versa. The two, there's Hootsuite, there's a Gora Pulse.
[00:15:19] Annette Choti: There's a lot out there. The two that I particularly like, one is called later.com. Okay. The reason I like that one is because it will let you do a link in bio on Instagram. So what that is on Instagram, you have one. One, only. One coveted link. In your actual profile. Okay. You don't get to actually hyperlink anything anywhere else in Instagram.
[00:15:48] Annette Choti: So that one link is super important. A lot of people put their calendar there. A lot of people put their website there, but if you use the tool that's in later.com, it's a link in bio tool, and it's similar to Link Tree if people know what that is. But I actually. Yeah. What's, I'm sorry, what was that? What is Link Tree, please?
[00:16:08] Annette Choti: Okay, so Link Tree is a landing page. Mm-hmm. That's all it is. And it's got anything you wanna put on there that are big buttons like your calendar, maybe your podcast you've written, and it's just one landing page. So a lot of people use that on Instagram, and I think it works well. The reason that I particularly have a preference towards later dot com's link in bio.
[00:16:31] Annette Choti: Is that it sets up, again, it's a separate webpage and it's got a calendar. It can have your podcast, your website, your book, whatever. But then all of the posts that you actually make on Instagram, you'll see that graphic and then people can. Click on that graphic cuz they'll remember it right from their feed.
[00:16:52] Annette Choti: Mm-hmm. That will go directly to a blog post. So I really, I think it's much more powerful. But the drawback for later.com is that they do not have the capacity to schedule to Google business profile. The one that I use for that is called Smarter Q. It's Q U E U E. That's like waiting in a line in the uk, right?
[00:17:14] Annette Choti: Smarter Q. And that will allow you to post to everything, but it won't let you do the Lincoln Bio. So you know there's never a hundred percent right, like. It just seems like I can't find the perfect tech product for this, but I use, frankly for myself and for my clients. I use a combination of both of those, and what you can do then is actually batch your content so you can actually schedule out your social media.
[00:17:47] Annette Choti: Really far in advance, and in fact, I have a majority of my social media actually scheduled out until December of this year, so online. Oh my
[00:17:57] Michael D.J. Eisenberg: God. I am so Okay. I am so jealous. If we were on the phone right now, I would hang up on you because I am so jealous.
[00:18:06] Annette Choti: Well, I mean, it is what I do for a living, right?
[00:18:10] Annette Choti: So I should not be the cobbler with no shoes. But I will say that then when certain things come up like a b, a tech show, I have the creative and mental capacity and the energy and enthusiasm I. To post all of that as well as my content that is more informative, showcasing expertise, authority, trustworthiness, all of that.
[00:18:34] Annette Choti: That's what we try to do for our clients as well, which is we do all of the heavy lifting, showcasing expertise. That way if they do have a philanthropic event, if they are listed for some sort of award or accolade, or they go to a conference, then is really exciting for them to post on social media instead of a bit of a burden.
[00:18:54] Annette Choti: And so anyone listening to this, if you sort of do all of that heavy lifting, either yearly or quarterly or monthly, right in advance, then it just gives you a little bit of. Emotional and creative room to then post those more thought leadership or creative posts. So those are my three tech tips to grow your presence on the interweb.
[00:19:24] Michael D.J. Eisenberg: Pardon the interruption. I hope you're enjoying this episode. Consider sharing this show with others, and please leave us a review on Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your download feeds. If you're listening directly from our blog, consider buying us a cup of coffee or two from the link on our blog to help the phrase some of the production costs.
[00:19:38] Michael D.J. Eisenberg: Thanks again, and enjoy.
[00:19:41] Michael D.J. Eisenberg: So there's two questions I wanna kind of pull a little bit. First, we talk about WordPress, and I understand that WordPress is the gold standard when it comes to doing a blog. What is your opinion about using something like WordPress versus say, I'm gonna use the one I'm currently using Squarespace.
[00:20:00] Michael D.J. Eisenberg: So
[00:20:02] Annette Choti: be honest. Please don't shoot the . Messenger. It's possible to do SEO on Squarespace. It is possible to work SEO on Squarespace, however it is. Typically never as effective or as efficient. And here's why. Because the same thing that makes Squarespace easy people to create beautiful websites is on the flip side of that, the same thing that bogs it down.
[00:20:29] Annette Choti: So for cos sort of. A big jigsaw puzzle. There are a lot of pieces that fit into it. Your Google reviews mm-hmm. And your keyword wording and all of these things. And one of the pieces of the SEO puzzle is your site speed, and also how well the Google bots can read it. So they're not our robot overlords quite yet.
[00:20:50] Annette Choti: Although with ai, I think it, I don't know. It might be coming, but as of right now, they're not our robot overlords, and we have to explain to them what the content is, and then the website also has to load fast. So all of the things that make W and Squarespace easy, right? Mm-hmm. You slide things in, right?
[00:21:08] Annette Choti: You have a video. All of these things, even if you're not using these things, Your website is still carrying them, so you are still carrying a backpack to try to get to the top of Everest, which is the top of Google, but you are carrying a backpack full of all of these tools that you are just not even using on your website.
[00:21:27] Annette Choti: So your website typically loads slower also because the backend isn't as easily accessible. You can't manipulate the backend quite as easily as you can with schema markup and metatags and meta descriptions. You can, it's just not quite as easy to do, in my opinion, as WordPress. So those are the things that make it a bit more difficult.
[00:21:52] Annette Choti: To rank for seo. It is possible with Squarespace to do it, but really if SEO is something that is a primary consideration, I always encourage people to move WordPress because that real estate is also then yours. A lot of people don't know that when you have a website on Wix or Squarespace, technically they own your website, so you really.
[00:22:18] Annette Choti: I, my, my recommendation always is to have a WordPress website, and when I say that, I'll just clarify. It's wordpress.org, not wordpress.com. wordpress.com is one that's free, that has a lot of ads on it and things like that, so you don't want
[00:22:33] Michael D.J. Eisenberg: that. But you talk about like all these, well, you haven't really talked about, but there are a lot of third party programs that you put on WordPress, for instance, eliminator, but, and that was just one I didn't wanna say, you talked about so many cuz we did talk about one, but I am aware there are so many, does do those third party add-ons do way down your WordPress site as in the same way that, you know, you're talking about Squarespace
[00:22:58] Annette Choti: and w.
[00:22:59] Annette Choti: Like any good attorney, I will tell you it depends. It depends on what those plugins are. Elementor, Elementor is one that typically does not because they. Were created and formulated to be optimized for SEO O. There are certain plugins primarily, I'll just be honest, if you kind of dunno what you're doing and you're just putting plugins on there, maybe some of them don't play nicely with each other.
[00:23:26] Annette Choti: That can bring down the site. Your website, well, it can bring down your whole website or it can slow your speed of your website or it can cause problems within your website. So, Yes, that is possible. But if you are running a streamlined website mm-hmm. With just mm-hmm. The plugins that you need, which can be a lot of plugins, but Right.
[00:23:49] Annette Choti: If they're all playing nicely with each other, and if they are all something that you actually need to make your website efficient and work well, then really it should all be optimized for seo.
[00:24:03] Michael D.J. Eisenberg: So then tell us, you, you also talked about. For promotion that you wanna send it out to Instagram, Facebook, et cetera.
[00:24:12] Michael D.J. Eisenberg: Are TikTok and Twitter still good platforms to be using given the concerns that have been generated from the governments about China on TikTok and the current ownership of Twitter, which are stories in into themselves, but are those still good places to
[00:24:32] Annette Choti: go? Let me start with Twitter. Okay. I don't know what's going to happen with Twitter.
[00:24:37] Annette Choti: No one does. But I feel like the purpose of being on a social media platform is to drive traffic to your website. That is the primary reason. It's to showcase your expertise, your authority, and your trustworthiness, and to get people off. Of these social media platforms off of the memes and the cat videos and onto your website.
[00:25:01] Annette Choti: That is right, the point of it. And then also brand awareness, consistent brand awareness. I don't know of that many lawyers that have gotten incredible results from Twitter alone. I am sure that there are exceptions to the rule. They're probably yelling right now at the podcast, listening in their car. So there are exceptions to the rule, but I would say that the majority of Twitter are conversations that do not really surround brand awareness.
[00:25:35] Annette Choti: It's usually discussions. Okay. Regarding social, political topics, things like that. So that's my. Perspective from my experience. Fair enough. So I don't think that Twitter is really the most prime real estate any law firm should be on anyway on social media. Fair enough. So that said, let me move to TikTok.
[00:25:58] Annette Choti: Wow. That is the deep sigh. Intentionally. So TikTok, I have always felt a lot. Of moral heartburn surrounding TikTok because it simply is not secure. And the truth is we have no idea where our information, where this content, where our private, where our data, where it's being stored, how it's being used now, how it might be used in the future.
[00:26:30] Annette Choti: It is just one big question mark. And to me just. Both personally and professionally makes me very nervous. So I know it's this new platform that everyone is jumping on. But I will say again that the only time an attorney should be on TikTok is literally if they have exhausted a. Every other aspect of their digital marketing, and they are bored and have nothing else to do because they should really be focusing on their brand and awareness.
[00:27:01] Annette Choti: They should be focusing on optimizing their website, adding more content to their website to showcase their expertise to be on other social media platforms where they can be having really important conversations, not only with potential clients, but also with their network to be getting referrals. On LinkedIn, right?
[00:27:22] Annette Choti: Mm-hmm. You could have a LinkedIn newsletter, you should have an email newsletter. You can have a YouTube channel, right? You can be on Instagram and visiting with potential clients there. You can be in Facebook groups talking to potential clients. There's a lot you can be doing out there. Instead of dancing and pointing on TikTok.
[00:27:42] Annette Choti: So again, there are people who are crushing it on TikTok. They will think that I am crazy right now for attempting to persuade people to avoid this medium. But I just feel like the combination between. The data security and the privacy issues, coupled with the fact that, from what I have heard from a lot of attorneys is that they do get a lot of engagement there.
[00:28:09] Annette Choti: Mm-hmm. They do get a lot of connections and likes. And comments, but they don't get a lot of actual quality leads from there. Ah, that's not good. Which is frankly, at the end of the day, isn't that the point of all of this? So it's not about vanity metrics, it's about getting actual dollars into your law firm's bank account.
[00:28:31] Annette Choti: So, For that reason, I typically tend to tell people, you should be starting a podcast. You should write a book. There are so many other things that you could do to showcase your expertise within marketing. I. Than, or even hosting a webinar or hosting an in-person event. Right. There's so many other things you can do besides TikTok.
[00:28:55] Annette Choti: I'm sure there are people right now screaming at this podcast and at me. Do
[00:29:00] Michael D.J. Eisenberg: people still have in-person events? Well,
[00:29:03] Annette Choti: I've heard rumors. I've heard rumors. Of
[00:29:05] Michael D.J. Eisenberg: course. That's how we met, so that's
[00:29:07] Annette Choti: right. We met at an in-person event. Of course, yes.
[00:29:12] Michael D.J. Eisenberg: So let's move on to question number two. Okay.
[00:29:15] Question #2: What are the top three pieces of tech an attorney should get if they wanna get into podcasting?
[00:29:15] Michael D.J. Eisenberg: What are the top three pieces of tech an attorney should get if they wanna get into podcasting?
[00:29:19] Annette Choti: So first I'll say, this is such a great question because if an attorney is considering doing a podcast, the answer is yes. Yes. Please do a podcast because, Not many law firms and lawyers are out there doing it consistently, and you will already have a leg up over your competition. Mm-hmm. Decide to do a podcast and to do one consistently with really great information.
[00:29:48] Annette Choti: And if you're worried about guests, you can just have one. That is just you. You don't have to make it an hour long. You can make it a half an hour, even 20 minutes. So there is a lot that you can do with a podcast. So I love this question because I think it's important for lawyers to consider having one, but especially before TikTok.
[00:30:07] Annette Choti: So the top three pieces of tech and attorney should get if they want to get into podcasting, is first on microphone, right? So you need to to sound really good and. Like I said, the one that I am looking, so I sounded like I'm far away. Audio technical is the microphone that I have, and then I have the little filter that goes over it to make you sound a little bit.
[00:30:32] Annette Choti: Better, A little more subtle, not quite as crisp and jarring. So that is the first piece of equipment, the first piece of tech that you need. The second piece, and it's not that expensive, frankly, that microphone, the second piece of tech is. Free, which is Garage band. Okay,
[00:30:52] Michael D.J. Eisenberg: well hold on. It's free. Yes. If you have a Mac, it
[00:30:55] Annette Choti: is free if you have a Mac.
[00:30:57] Annette Choti: That is
[00:30:57] Michael D.J. Eisenberg: true. So its free if you have a Mac. Yes. But
[00:30:59] Annette Choti: go ahead. Yes. And so and then get a Mac. No, I'm just kidding. That's the third piece. Thank you. Goodnight tip. Your waitresses. No, I really like garage band. But the third piece of tech that I'm gonna say that an attorney should get if they wanna get into podcasting isn't, Actually a piece of tech.
[00:31:18] Annette Choti: I'm gonna cheat. Okay. It's actually a, it's a course. So there's a guy named Pat Flynn. Okay. And he has, he is amazing. He has a course called, it's Known Lovingly as Pup. It's. Power up podcasting and it's a few hundred dollars and this course is so amazing. He has built a whole career. He actually has a conference of his own at one point.
[00:31:46] Annette Choti: He's very well known in podcasting circles and when I did not know anything. About podcasting. I got his course and he has open office hours every week, and I mean, he is a millionaire or billionaire many times over, and he's an absolute sweetheart. His course, literally, it's a video and a, it's a course that you buy online, so you go through the videos and you go through the different tutorials and the different written content, but it literally is like this by this microphone.
[00:32:20] Annette Choti: Now here's the video on how to take it out of the box. I mean, it is literally down to that level. And I felt like for someone who was, I'm a little tech savvy. I mean, I'm not as great as you, but I felt like it was such. A wonderful course because I felt like I could truly follow this step by step and that it was very easy to follow and therefore it, I felt very encouraged and successful as I was starting my podcast and not as much frustration.
[00:32:57] Annette Choti: So when he was going through Garage Band and explaining how to create a file, how to create files on your Mac, how to create a master. Template file that you will then record an intro and then all of your other podcasts will start with that or how to edit it was he's, he makes everything so user friendly that I really cannot, I.
[00:33:24] Annette Choti: I cannot encourage people enough to take a peak at his course to see if it would be right for them, because I know that I probably actually would not have a podcast if it were not for that course. He really made it very easy.
[00:33:37] Michael D.J. Eisenberg: Annette, for our last question.
[00:33:38] Question #3: What are the top three ways attorneys can use AI like chat, G T P, to increase online content for their practice?
[00:33:38] Michael D.J. Eisenberg: What are the top three ways attorneys can use AI like chat, G T P, to increase online content for their practice?
[00:33:46] Annette Choti: So this is a bit of a trick question, I think, and maybe you didn't mean for it to be, but. This, there's a lot packed up in here. Question, I think before asking this question is, should attorneys use AI create online content for their practice? And I will tell you that Google has come out and said, and you can look up Google guidelines themselves say that if you're trying to manipulate the search rankings, which people get hung up on that word manipulate.
[00:34:18] Annette Choti: But manipulate just simply means to change or alter, or. To gain favor, right? So if you are trying to manipulate the search rankings in order to get yourself and your content on the top, and you are using ai, it's considered spam. So if you are going up against other law firms that are, use AI content. You will not make it to the top of Google for SEO reasons.
[00:34:46] Annette Choti: And if you think about it, it makes sense if you have a hundred attorneys and all of them are using chat G P T for their content, and you have one attorney who's writing unique content, showing authority and expertise. It's very simple for Google to figure out who's using AI content. I, myself, personally, there's tools all over the internet that you can just copy and paste content into and it'll tell you whether it's AI or not.
[00:35:14] Annette Choti: So Google has those same tools, right? They probably invented some of them, and they can tell what content is written by a bot and what is written by a human. If they have a hundred. One choices of wills versus trust or something on intellectual property or whatever it is, why would they choose one of the pieces of content outta the a hundred that sound like the 99 other pieces of content?
[00:35:39] Annette Choti: There's nothing more valuable in there. SEO O stands for search engine. Optimization, right? You are optimizing your content to be at the top of the Google. At the end of the day, you have the best chocolate chip cookie recipe, right? There's millions of chocolate chip cookie recipes out there, but there's only one that's at the very top of Google, so Google has to make a choice.
[00:36:03] Annette Choti: That's what its job is That said, You can use AI in your content in a very specific way. What I tell attorneys is AI can be used to help you with the creative process. What should I be writing about? What are some topics to get the creative juices flowing? After you come up with a topic, you can use AI to help you with maybe some subheaders, your H two s, maybe some bullet point lists.
[00:36:36] Annette Choti: As long as you are not using. Chat, G P T or some sort of AI tool like Jasper or whatever it is, to just singularly create this content. And I will tell you a lot of the times the content is legally inaccurate, ethically not compliant, factually wrong. So I. And at the same time it's written by a robot. And like again, if you've got 99 other law firms using that exact same platform to write content on that exact same topic, Google is going to be searching for the best content to put at the top of their search engine.
[00:37:12] Annette Choti: So like anything, I think that this particular tech tool can be used wisely by lawyers to. Get the creative juices flowing to start thinking about content, to be thinking about questions, to be thinking about answers, and then putting their particular thought leadership within their content so that Google ranks them at the top.
[00:37:40] Michael D.J. Eisenberg: Well, let me pull on this in two different directions. So first of all, couldn't you have an AI or chat G T P or whoever your flavor is to draft you something and then you edit it? And then throw it back in. Is that going to, when I say back in, or should I should say, posted on your blog, is that gonna create a problem with the Google
[00:38:01] Annette Choti: Analytics?
[00:38:02] Annette Choti: I would say that if it's showing up in one of the free tools or very inexpensive tools online, such as
[00:38:10] Annette Choti: you are putting your content back into those tools, and it's showing up as ai. Then Google is probably gonna flag it as AI as well. So that's kind of a little bit of a fail safe.
[00:38:19] Annette Choti: I'm not gonna say it's a hundred percent, but it's a way for you to say, okay, this particular tool does not think it's ai, so it's good to go for SEO reasons. Well then now, if you don't care about S, just as a side note, right, if you don't care about seo, if you just wanna have content on your website and then promote it on social media and you are not caring about SEO at all, then I think that you can absolutely use AI and chat G P T.
[00:38:46] Michael D.J. Eisenberg: Well, I, that seems kind of odd that people who are posting stuff to their websites don't care about seo because one of the most important things about using a website is having the SEO on there geared correctly so that you get more visitors to the site.
[00:38:59] Annette Choti: I agree. But there are some people who just want content on their website, so then they can sort of showcase that on different social media channels, have something to put it out to their email list.
[00:39:11] Annette Choti: Things like that. And in those cases, something is better than nothing. You're not getting the s e o benefits, but you are still getting the ability to promote that content. And then when people do stop by your website, they do see there's not tumbleweeds in the blog section, right? Like there, there is content there at least even if it's not optimized for seo.
[00:39:31] Annette Choti: All right,
[00:39:31] Michael D.J. Eisenberg: so I'm gonna flip this now. What about drafting something. Or coming up with an original content and then throwing it into the chat G T P and say, Hey, can you optimize this better for seo? As
[00:39:43] Annette Choti: far as I am aware, I am not sure that it has the ability to optimize for SEO O. Such that a Google bot would like it more than original content.
[00:39:57] Annette Choti: Now we are having this conversation right in 2023. This may be very outdated in even weeks or months or years from now. So this is just with the information that we have now,
[00:40:10] Michael D.J. Eisenberg: right? We'll, remember chat GTP four just came out, A new version just came out like, yeah, this past week. So, I'm barely scratching the surface on three and Lord knows what four can do, although they're saying it's better.
[00:40:23] Michael D.J. Eisenberg: But then again, as I say, user beware.
[00:40:26] Annette Choti: I apparently it passed the bar, so I mean, yes. Oh yeah.
[00:40:29] Michael D.J. Eisenberg: It passed the bar and tested in the top 10%,
[00:40:32] Annette Choti: which frankly I think speaks more to the bar than it does to chat G P T, but that's another
[00:40:36] Michael D.J. Eisenberg: story. No comments,
[00:40:37] Where You Can Find Annette! 🤗
[00:40:37] Michael D.J. Eisenberg: Annette. Thank you. I appreciate you being on here. Tell us where can people find you?
[00:40:42] Annette Choti: So you can find me on my website, which is law quill.com. It's all one word, L E W Q U I L l.com. You can email me at annette@lawquill.com. You can find me on LinkedIn, which is my happy place. I also have my own podcast. Which is Legal Marketing Lounge, and I've written a book, which is called Click Magnet, the Ultimate Digital Marketing Guide for Law Firms, which is really a step-by-step guide for those who are more interested in doing digital marketing, a little bit of DIY for their law firm, but any one of those ways.
[00:41:12] Annette Choti: And I'm on Instagram as well, so you can find me. I'm on the inner web everywhere. Well, ne,
[00:41:17] Michael D.J. Eisenberg: again, I wanna thank you for being here and have a great day.
[00:41:20] Annette Choti: Thank you so much. It really was a privilege and an honor.
[00:41:23] Michael D.J. Eisenberg: Thanks again. Thank you for joining me on this episode of the Tech Savvy lawyer.page podcast.
[00:41:28] Michael D.J. Eisenberg: Our next episode will be posted in about two weeks. If you have any ideas about a future episode, please contact me at Michael DJ at the Tech Savvy lawyer.page.
Have a great day and happy Lawyering.